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07 November 2011 @ 12:05 pm
a 'once upon a time' squee post 2 of 2  
I pretty much love everything about this show- with only one glaring exception. I CANNOT STAND THAT LITTLE KID. I feel bad for the Evil Queen, having to deal with him. Although it makes me wonder- why would you invoke a curse that you yourself fall victim to, and if she is self-aware, why would she adopt a child?

Anyway, I like everyone else; Jennifer Morrison is doing a great job as the lead, she makes me snicker with her dry wit and her funny facial expressions. Obv, I adore the Evil Queen. Omg, Rumpelstiltskin, I feel embarrassed for finding him so attractive (is that Rush off SGU I spy? He’s so typecast, lol). And Ginnifer Goodwin was born to play Snow White. FANTASTIC CAST IS FANTASTIC.



I even like Prince Charming.



Sure, I rolled my eyes at him when he stopped Snow White being a BAMF with the sword, but he redeemed himself by making a credible effort to kill the Evil Queen.



Except he really shouldn’t have called out to her. Maybe he could’ve averted tragedy if he’d thrown those stupid noble impulses to the wind and thrown his sword at her back without a warning. Idiotic heroes and their code of honor.

BUT THAT AWFUL LITTLE BOY, I WANT TO PUNCH HIM EVERY TIME HE’S ONSCREEN. It aggravates me that he steals his teacher’s credit card and uses her money to fund his search for his birth mother and his trip to find her, but he doesn’t get in trouble for it! The teacher coos over what a clever boy he is, how special, and his birth mother doesn’t bother telling him off for it. Even his adopted mother is more concerned about the fact that he brought Emma back than disciplining him for STEALING.

And he’s just so nauseatingly earnest and persistent in badgering Emma about how it’s her DESTINY to stay in town and rescue everyone, ugh. Sure, we as viewers know that he’s actually right, but in-universe, there’s no way he can be certain of that, nor can anyone else (except perhaps the Evil Queen). So rather than finding it endearing and applauding his little mission, I instead find it highly aggravating and ridiculously entitled. SURE, OF COURSE YOUR TOWN IS UNDER A CURSE. GO AHEAD, UPROOT THIS WOMAN AND INSIST SHE LEAVE HER LIFE BEHIND IN ORDER TO PLAY OUT YOUR STUPID FANTASY. He’s so presumptuous, and because he’s a little kid, it’s supposed to be cute or some rot. GRR.

If they’d made him a seer of some sort, possessing some gift that allows him to see what’s going on, I’d applaud him. But instead, he’s an annoying kid with a fairytale book and an overactive imagination. That he’s right doesn’t justify his actions because he can’t know that for sure, he just lucked out. I just want him held accountable for his behavior instead of getting a free pass to steal and lie and be rude because he happens to be right about the town’s curse. I found Gaius in Merlin irritating enough, but it’s a lot worse that I’m expected to accept his behavior from a little brat.

Ep specific thoughts:

As in Enchanted, I love that ‘hell’ is our world! LOL.

Who did Evil Queen lose and how is it Snow White’s fault? They’re straying away from the fairytales, right? ‘coz I don’t remember that at all.

Can I just say, I love Evil Queen’s theme.




The ominous music to which she stormed down the aisle and which appears when she’s being particularly badass is very cool. And I snicker a bit at how she has to whirl dramatically to give herself the momentum to pull her train in place so she doesn’t trip. (leaves her vulnerable, you could attack her at that moment when she’s focused on making sure she looks the part)



The mayor miscalculated by trying to intimidate Emma. If she’d played the role of ‘long-suffering career woman balancing her work and her personal life’, Emma would’ve had sympathy for her difficulties with her son and understood how hard it was and been on her merry way. But threatening her just made her dig her heels in. Tsk, tsk, bad call.

I think she's too used to being able to push everyone around her in town.



She's got them all scurrying around in fear of her, doing her bidding, that she doesn't know what to do when she comes across someone who has nothing to lose in defying her and who only bears down harder when challenged.



I love Evil Queen visiting Maleficient! Their frenemy dynamic was fun to watch. ^_^



'Must we do this?'/'Alas, we must.'




‘If you’re going to kill me, KILL ME.’
‘Why would I do that? You’re my only friend.’


That is both hilarious and really sad. The former because…er, what was the point of saying that? what awkward dialogue. I’d get it if Maleficient said, ‘Kill me but not the horse unicorn’, or ‘Spare me the monologue, kill me now’ or whatever, but that was just…wtf? IDGI.

And sad, ‘coz…UGH, HER FACE. Great acting, I really feel for her. So filled with bitterness and loathing that she’ll do anything to get revenge, even jeopardize her friendship…but even that isn’t very strong or providing much comfort to her. >_< I’LL BE YOUR FRIEND. I want to write badfic with a self-insert that befriends her and tries to cheer her up and make life happier. I am so tragic, I know.

I did think it was nice of Maleficent to try and dissuade Evil Queen from her course, pointing out it’d cost her dearly and leave a void she’d never be able to fill. Sure, it was self-serving, since she’d be caught up in the curse, but still.



’So be it.’ I CAN’T TAKE THE DEPTHS OF HER DESPAIR, OH, GOD. I love her delivery of this line. It’s not loud and arrogant and OTT, it’s not even all that bitter and melodramatic, there’s just this quiet resolve because she can’t stay her hand, she can’t do anything else, she has NOTHING to live for except vengeance and if she doesn’t exact that, what is she supposed to do with her days?

Side note: holy crap, her boobs. I can’t stop staring. That costume does wonders for her cleavage.



And I love how the length of the necklace alters in order to draw attention to her cleavage.

It really amuses me how she has to keep flinging her cape behind her. Woman, learn how to master your cape, it does not behoove you to keep manually adjusting it. *shakes head* Take notes from Snape, the master of the billowing cloak!

AGH. I was enjoying this and that stupid little kid shows up again. Demands Emma walk him to school, what a brat. And I wonder how he paid for her drink, whose money did he steal for that? *side-eyes him* There he goes, throwing that large heavy apple behind him without even looking. I guess it was too hard to find a BIN to put it in, oh no, he’s gotta litter, for one, and possibly bruise someone with that, for another. And his whiny voice is getting on my nerves. I HATE HIM SFM, I CAN’T DEAL WITH THIS, WHYYY.

I would like this so much more if it were like Savannah and Shirley Manson in Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles. I found their relationship fascinating! That little girl, sensing something was wrong with her mom, torn between wanting to believe in her beloved mother and suspecting something was wrong. For those of you not in the know, the kid was right- her mother was killed and replaced by a female Terminator. But watching that cold, emotionless machine attempt to mimic the expected maternal bond was pretty entertaining and I had so much sympathy for Savannah. Too bad it ain’t like that here.



Emma realizing that as ‘Snow White’, the teacher could be her mom. *squishes her* I wonder if she wants to believe in this story now because it could lead her to her birth parents. She looks too shaken not to have invested in this somewhat, no matter how crazy.

And then she goes to her later for a chat when she's conflicted and doesn't know what to do.



I think this relationship is so sweet and kinda tragic at the same time, 'coz that's her mother right there and she doesn't even know her!



IDK why people put their shoes on the bed.SO GROSS. You could’ve been treading in dog poop and then putting that on the covers you’ll be sleeping on/under… *shudder* That said, her boots are awesome. DO WANT.



Are we supposed to be shipping Emma and the Sherriff? ‘coz I’m feeling it. Ofc, I wouldn’t mind if Rumpelstiltskin turned up again…



WHY DOES REGINA CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THAT DAMN BOY? I wish she’d just throw him out, seriously, it pains me to see a villain brought to such lows. Repeatedly attempting and failing to charm a kid, ugh, it’s embarrassing. I have this thing about villains maintaining their dignity and being an actual threat, and I’m getting second-hand embarrassment seeing her repeatedly stumble.

And does he have his teacher under hypnosis? He steals from her without repercussion and now she’s bailing out Emma on his say-so? SERIOUSLY?



Okay, I LOVE EMMA. Hot damn, fresh out of jail from a frame job and she goes and CHOPS OFF HALF THE APPLE TREE? Oh, god. Insanely badass!

(umm, apples aren’t supposed to bounce, are they? Lol, obvious prop is obvious. IDC, though, I know people were all ‘omg, so fake looking’ but I don’t mind, I enjoyed the surrealism of Pushing Daisies, so fake apple trees are okay with me)



DEFINITION OF HBIC. <3



But this makes me feel more and more sorry for Regina. She is so outclassed in the intimidation department. Plus, half her tree is gone. >_< WHY CAN’T YOU BE PROPERLY EVIL?

‘Revenge is a dark and lonely road, and once you go down it, there is no heading back.’
‘What is there for me to head back to?’




*sighs* It’s lines like this that make me root for her. *pets* She’s so broken.

Haha, when she was making a bargain with Rumpelstiltskin for help with enacting the curse, I honestly thought he was going to proposition her. Okay, wow, shipping her and Rumpelstiltskin now!



COME ON, he was totally checking her out when she asked him what he wanted.

SERIOUSLY? You promise to do whatever he says if he says please? What if he says ‘please jump off a bridge’?! YOU’RE NOT THINKING THIS THROUGH. *facepalm* Don’t be so damn desperate, first rule of barter, they’ll know they can demand anything and you’ll go for it. >_< She tries to be so evil, but she’s a babe in the woods.




HOT DAMN, when he grabbed her by the throat, gah, hitting my kinks, well done, show!

At first I thought she was going to cut out her own heart, somehow, like in that twisted fairytale. *shudder* (and in HP, y/n?) Now I’m worried she’s gonna kill that nice old guy that wants to protect her. :O



Lol, that cap. Is he…not even checking out her ass? Come on. Seriously? I mean. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but…huh. Okay. Points for self-restraint, I guess.



I love how innocent Regina seems with her apple tree.



The whole thing where she’s tended to it since she was a little girl really comes across, the way she’s so tender and almost vulnerable here. It makes me think of a girl whose doll’s been torn apart, picking up the pieces and putting them together again.

Regina actually looks upset when the sheriff points out that Henry will get hurt if things escalate between her and Emma. Again, why does he matter to her?! I’m thinking she can’t remember who she is. I assumed she did, because she cast the spell and what’s the point of people suffering if she can’t remember that she hates them and that she’s responsible for making them hurt, but…yeah, IDK. Makes me even more annoyed with the kid, because he’s not defying an evil queen, he’s mouthing off to the woman who loved him and cared for him all these years.

Even if she is manipulative and coldly driven.

Y’know, that was a truly masterful move, calling Emma over to call a truce and all the while setting her up to hurt Henry’s feelings and alienate them, mwahaha. NICE.



But…I swear she was blinking back tears. Damn it.

Holy crap, the old guy’s her father. OUCH. And that she seeks his counsel on whether or not she should cut his heart out, oh god.



Seriously, WHAT DID SNOW DO TO HER? WHAT DROVE HER TO THIS? Some random dude she was gonna marry, but Snow intervened somehow? I wanna knooooow.

And if ’she must be punished’, why through this overly convoluted and demanding plan? Why not magic herself into the castle and kill the prince and their child? Then Snow White will suffer for the rest of her life, blaming herself and mourning their deaths. PERFECT REVENGE. Why do this stupid curse that requires her to kill the person she loves most?!



I’m now ten times more annoyed that she killed her father for a happier life and all she got was this lousy existence with a horrible child that hates her. And possibly she doesn’t even know Snow White and can’t even take pleasure in her misery. WHAT WAS THE POINT?

Side note: he was a really nice old guy, but I gotta say- DUDE. This chick just had to be talked down from killing you! Do you really think you should be getting close to her rn? O.o I’d be running out of that castle as fast as I could.

Argh, this whole storyline about Henry (finally learned his name!) is annoying me. Emma has to stay to protect him because she is a GOOD PERSON. She is his BIOLOGICAL MOTHER SO SHE OWES IT TO HIM. Why is his teacher putting the obligation on her to ‘protect’ Henry when she’s the one who’s known him longer and is a support system for him? Why make the newcomer who knows nothing about his situation responsible?

IDK, I get really touchy on adoption storylines. It’s just that if you take away the supernatural elements and the fact the Regina has been cast as the villain, what you have is a troubled kid who’s acting out with a mother who’s at her wits end trying to rein him in and deal with his antics, and then the bio-mom turning up and wanting to take care of him when she gave up all right to him years ago! Sure, Regina’s pretty awful, but she’s right in saying that Emma abrogated her parental role and can’t just waltz in and act like his mother when REGINA is the one who’s fed and clothed and sheltered him all these years. It’s just so…it feels like she’s full of herself, that she’s appointing herself his guardian and sticking around to ensure his mental health and whatever.

And so now Emma’s buying into his fantasy and encouraging him to believe his mother’s an evil queen. NICE. Now he’s never going to try and reconcile with her. IDK. Look, again, I get that the narrative of the show is based on Regina being evil, but I cannot get over the fact that Emma does not know this and she’s encouraging the kid to believe his mom’s evil. The whole therapy scene where she makes herself his accomplice and talks about them being co-conspirators and tricking the evil queen into believing they weren’t onto her…SO DISGUSTED.



Agh, Rumpelstiltskin! This dude is so cool, I enjoy his interactions with everyone. He really unsettles Regina, which is entertaining. ^_^





And OMG, the look in her eyes when he asked why she named the kid Henry…and how he said PLEASE. DO THEY BOTH REMEMBER?! I AM SO CONFUSED, I NEED ANOTHER EP, WHY IS THERE NO MORE, ARGH.

tl;dr- I hate Henry, I love Regina, I am fond of Emma and Snow, plus I am interested in inappropriately shipping Rumpelstiltskin. Also, I adore the fact that there are so many strong, well-written compelling women on this show, and that they are not merely foils for the male characters. In fact, in ep 2, there was only one real male player, and most of it was the leading ladies trying to outdo each other.

The best part is how I was just saying to redbrunja that while Revenge was awesome for having a lead female focused on a goal that had nothing to do with love interests or propping up a male plotline, it made me hungry for another show with a female sociopath…and hark! Once Upon a Time, here to answer that need! Only Regina/Evil Queen needs to turn it up a notch, but still, I’m loving having another villain to cheer on. ^_^ I think it’s wonderful having two shows focused on two ladies conspiring and trying to outwit each other. ^_^ Emma vs Queen Regina and Emily vs Queen Victoria. AWESOME.

PS. In the discussion post over at abc_onceupon, this comment by zippytheavenger made me smirk and sigh happily once more over this show:

Also liked how Emma and Regina's Battle Royale is so blatant and frank. None of this typical sneaky, catfighty, 'frenemy' bullshit that most television shows seem to think is the only acceptable way for women to display rivalry. My fandom doesn't use subtle social sabotage, my fandom uses a chainsaw


I really like that, it’s so true, women aren’t usually allowed to lock horns and take each other on directly in this manner, and I enjoy the way the show lets them be hardcore. :D
 
 
Feeling: excitedexcited
 
 
 
Dark Star: Autumn - Catsanalith on November 7th, 2011 01:40 am (UTC)
OMG this post was soooo awesome! And I'm totally wondering the same thing about why the Queen would cast a curse that she'd also fall victim to. Unless she just somehow set it up that she'd be in charge in some way (like the mayor) and that made her happy enough? I dunno, but if the curse was so powerful, you'd think there would be a loophole so she could stay out of it. Maybe we'll learn more?

AND Rumpelstiltskin!!! Absolutely 100% my favorite character, no questions asked. I adore him in both worlds, and I'm totally convinced he somehow remembers something from the fairytale. Otherwise, why would he have brought Henry and Regina together? And...uh...yeah, I totally think he's hot in the real world. I think it's the hair and the long cheekbones maybe? I also kinda like his voice XD I totally need to find icons of him >.>
Mistmistaria on November 7th, 2011 01:48 am (UTC)
I think the queen felt like she didn't have anything left in her world, especially not once she actually went through with killing her father, so she probably figured being in a world that stops Snow and everyone from having a happy ending was good enough for her even if she didn't remember it.
(no subject) - sparkythegeek on November 7th, 2011 02:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mistaria on November 7th, 2011 06:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sparkythegeek on November 7th, 2011 06:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 02:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
Mist: aliceinwonderlandmistaria on November 7th, 2011 01:45 am (UTC)
Yay I'm glad you're loving this show too! <3

And I think the evil queen tries so hard with the kid because of what they told her about the spell like she'll always be searching for something to fill the void with because she's empty and so she's trying to convince herself she loves the kid or whatever and then with Emma she just gets competitive and becomes a game she has to win. Do we know for sure that she knows that she sent them all there and who she really is? I feel like they have been playing around with a does/doesn't she know -- especially in that last scene with Rumplestiltskin.
borg_princess: queenregina-attitudeborg_princess on November 7th, 2011 03:32 am (UTC)
I'm glad you're willing to babble with me about our love for this show. SO MANY FEELINGS.

she'll always be searching for something to fill the void with because she's empty and so she's trying to convince herself she loves the kid or whatever

I half-agree and half-don't!

I think the fact that she named her son after the father she KILLED (!) says a lot. She got rid of the one person that loved her, and now she's searching for something to replace that, as you said, to fill that void.

But I don't think she's 'trying to convince herself', tbh, I think she really does care about Henry (she looks upset in like, three different scenes and I think it's genuine, but YMMV), but she can't connect with him now that he's older, lol. I have a feeling that if we saw her with him as an infant, she'd be looking after him and everything, but now he's older and got his own opinions and attitudes and hating on her, it's difficult. 'coz he thinks she's evil, so...

I just watched this vid with Lana Parrill and Robert Carlyle, and the last few minutes are basically all about why she adopted Henry. It's pretty funny, I love their rapport (though argh, it's hard to hear in places), and she's talking about wanting someone safe to love and needing to give love to someone, hence adopting Henry, and Robert's talking about how she wants to be a good mother but she doesn't know how to do it and she keeps stumbling and then Lana's like, 'SHE'S JUST REALLY BAD AT IT' or something, lol.

That aside, yeah, now that Emma's in town and Henry adores her, it has to sting so much. Regardless of whether you think she loves him or not, it's gotta hurt having looked after this boy and taken care of him for so long only for him to turn on her and run to another woman. >_<

Do we know for sure that she knows that she sent them all there and who she really is? I feel like they have been playing around with a does/doesn't she know -- especially in that last scene with Rumplestiltskin.

IDKKKKKK. I want to believe she does know, otherwise it's SO MUCH MORE HURTFUL to have him despising her for no reason in her eyes. Can you imagine having your son say you're evil and want nothing to do with you? That'd be horrible, so I hope she does know, 'coz then at least she'd realize he does have a point. (even if I think his behavior's awful)

But with that last scene, I think the way they wrote/shot it really does suggest she remembers. Why else would she be so shocked by his 'please'? Why the wide-eyes and near-panicked expression at the hints dropped, y'know?

I LOVE THIS SHOW, SO MANY SUBTLETIES AND WONDERFUL TENSE DYNAMICS AND FIERCE BAMFS.
(no subject) - mistaria on November 7th, 2011 03:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 03:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mistaria on November 7th, 2011 03:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 7th, 2011 03:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mistaria on November 7th, 2011 03:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 7th, 2011 04:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
A Figure Of Speechafigureofspeech on November 7th, 2011 03:07 am (UTC)
Omg this show, THIS SHOW. We are all of three episodes in and I am already way too invested lol. But come on -- reimagined fairy tales, a large cast of awesome and unique female characters, and some very nice eye candy? How could I resist? x)

I have to kind of agree with you on the Henry thing. I mean, he's cute, I'll give him that, but he's gallivanting around telling people that they're characters from his book. We know it's true, but a lot of the time he just needs to sit the hell down. Your life 'sucks'? You were adopted by the goddamn mayor, I think you could do a lot worse. And what did she ever do to make him think she was the evil queen? I mean really, she obviously cares about him very much. It must feel horrible to hear him say those things. So I kind of sympathize with Regina, in that way that you like a villain that's really good at being bad. x) (Rumpelstiltskin is that way too lol, only he's a total creeper. Excellent villains in this show so far.)

I feel for Emma a lot too though. She was all alone in the world, and then all of the sudden this kid shows up and wants her to be in his life. That must be pretty hard to resist. And then Regina made the mistake of threatening her. I feel like Emma would have let it be otherwise, but now she's stuck around and it'll get harder and harder to just leave. And ngl every time Mary and Emma talk to each other I just flail all over the place because they are family and they don't even knoooooooow!

Seriously, this show. *all of the feelings*

Have you watched today's episode yet?
borg_princess: queenregina-attitudeborg_princess on November 7th, 2011 04:03 am (UTC)
I have not watched the ep yet, but feel free to spoil, I am only too happy to flail with you over this show. :D

reimagined fairy tales, a large cast of awesome and unique female characters, and some very nice eye candy? How could I resist? x)

IKR? Thank god it got picked up for a full season, I am so happy we get more eps! *fingers crossed for a second season as well* I IZ GREEDY.

Seriously, I am in raptures over how many cool ladies there are in this show. So many programs are all about the dudes, and it's wonderful to have this show which devotes itself to awesome ladies. (also, the WRITING. Katie McGrath WISHES Morgana got the same level of respect and sympathy that Queen Regina gets here)

I have to kind of agree with you on the Henry thing. I mean, he's cute, I'll give him that, but he's gallivanting around telling people that they're characters from his book. We know it's true, but a lot of the time he just needs to sit the hell down.

ILU X INFINITY. Thank you for this. <3

I know he's pretty popular and people wish he was their child and so on, but look at this kid! He's convinced his mother is evil WITH WHAT EVIDENCE? (I watched a bit of the promo for the new ep and he accuses her of doing something to Charming, wtf, SMH)

Your life 'sucks'? You were adopted by the goddamn mayor, I think you could do a lot worse. And what did she ever do to make him think she was the evil queen? I mean really, she obviously cares about him very much.

EXACTLY. I don't see what she's done to make her such a bad mother and making his life miserable. If he had any evidence that she was evil, I'm pretty sure he'd've told people, he'd've dobbed her in to the Sheriff in a heartbeat.

She's been neurotic and controlling the past two eps, but come on, he hates her and his bio-mom's come to town and he adores her, I mean, I defy any woman not to feel upset and tense and lash out over this. I mean, where was Emma all his life? She gave him up and it was Regina that took him in and gave him a home and now he's turned on her for that woman? I totally get her seeing red over it. Though framing her was OTT, but still, it's fairly harmless without any long-term impact, AS OPPOSED TO CHOPPING HALF HER TREE DOWN.

(don't get me wrong, I love that Emma wasso badass, and it was warranted given Regina had a vendetta going against her, but still)
(no subject) - afigureofspeech on November 7th, 2011 04:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 02:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - afigureofspeech on November 8th, 2011 07:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 7th, 2011 04:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - afigureofspeech on November 7th, 2011 05:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 02:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - afigureofspeech on November 8th, 2011 08:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Well, I'm hardly loquacious...: ouat; storybrookh_loquacious on November 7th, 2011 04:05 am (UTC)
Hee. This is fun. I saw your post over on one of the comms, and have come to visit. Because I just watched all three eps of this show this weekend.

Okay, so I agree that Henry is sometimes the weak element (though I don't dislike him as you do). I suspect he is the main reason I didn't start watching the show right away. The previews have a lot of Henry/Emma scenes, and dialogue that is just so overwrought and earnest (out of neccessity given the plot).

Totally agree about this show being all about the women. It's pretty awesome.

I am pretty sure we are supposed to be shipping Emma/Sherriff Graham. Everyone seems to be doing it. So whether or not we're supposed to, fandom has made it's choice, and really, at the end of the day that's kinda what matters. (But given that Regina referred to him having a schoolboy crush on her, I think we're supposed to be.)

I *think* part of the reason Henry didn't get in trouble from his teacher for stealing her credit card is supposed to be related to her 'Snow White' personality. Sort of the traditional princess personality of loving all things good and noble and such. I mean, she was summoning a bluebird at one point. It's unrealistic, but on this show, given the premise, I'll allow it.

As for Regina, I think she knows who she is. I think the last scene proves that. And I think Rumplestiltskin knows too, but wasn't supposed to and that surprised her, which is intriguing, although also debatable. I think she cares so much about Henry because she's trying to find part of herself again. She's got this world where everything is perfect (her happily ever after), but she still feels like she's missing something because she sacrificed/destroyed part of herself with the curse. And so she figured she'd get a kid to try and love and give her something, but it isn't working.

Which brings me to Emma, and why (although yeah, kinda horrible), I'm okay with her injecting herself in Henry's life. 1) I genuinely at this point don't think she's necessarily trying to take Henry from his mother so much as make sure he's okay, which I'm okay with, and brings me to 2) she may not know that Regina's evil per se, but she does know that Regina doesn't love Henry. Because apparently Emma's talent is knowing when people are lying and she flat out asked Regina in ep 1 whether she loved Henry. Guessing she knew the response was a lie, and that's why she's sticking around. I agree that in pretty much any other context, this would be far more annoyiing than it is. In this context, I'm pretty okay with it.

As for why the evil Queen hates Snow White, well, if we're going with the fairytales, wasn't she supposed to be her stepmother? Which means I'm guessing whatever Snow White took had something to do with either A) her beauty, or B) (and more likely) Snow White's father. Did Snow try to break up/sabotage the marriage? Did her father pick his daughter over the Evil Queen? So basically, did Snow White somehow destroy Evil Queen's one chance at true love? (Apparently the most important thing in the fairytale world?) This is my guess. And why the Queen basically wanted a whole other world where she was in control and she didn't have to be reminded of everything she'd lost

Well, this is longer than I meant it to be. Sorry about that. But yeah, I've become obsessed with this show over the weekend.
borg_princess: emma-love alikeborg_princess on November 7th, 2011 04:58 am (UTC)
Eeek! *bounces* Never apologize for long comments with me! This is what I hoped and dreamed of when I posted this ridiculously long entry in the first place, so thank you!

Alas, I am on the public library's internet atm and I have to go soon, but I am going to address all your totally legit points when I get back online again tomorrow. There's so much awesome in your comment (I totally forgot about Emma's ability- is it for real? She wasn't kidding about being able to tell lies?- and her asking Regina if she loved Henry), I'm excited to get to discuss this in-depth with you. ♥

TIL TOMORROW.
(no subject) - h_loquacious on November 7th, 2011 05:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 03:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - gpgurl50 on November 7th, 2011 05:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - h_loquacious on November 7th, 2011 05:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
ridiculously long response pt1 - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 03:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: ridiculously long response pt1 - h_loquacious on November 8th, 2011 05:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
ridiculously long response pt2 - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 03:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: ridiculously long response pt2 - h_loquacious on November 8th, 2011 05:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
ridiculously long response pt3 - borg_princess on November 8th, 2011 03:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: ridiculously long response pt3 - h_loquacious on November 8th, 2011 05:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
gpgurl50gpgurl50 on November 7th, 2011 05:35 am (UTC)
RE: Henry
-Well, given the Evil Queen’s father’s name is Henry and he was the person she loved more than anyone in the world and that the penalty of this reality was the Evil Queen would have a void for the rest of her life the Henry thing makes sense to me. (Part of it). He had a son Henry to replace her father Henry who she loved more than anything but child Henry will never love her back, hence the void she feels.
-I think child Henry gets away with a lot because it seems pretty well known throughout the town that he’s seeing a psychiatrist and has deep psychological issues. Given that his mother also seems pretty corrupt, making the psychiatrist lie for her, I guess people believe there’s a reason he’s acting out and just trust he’s getting the help he needs from his psychiatrist.
-In a real world adoption storyline I would sort of hate this and I think I read too much into things but in the pilot Emma said she could always tell when people are lying. Then she was about to leave town and straight up asked the evil queen if she really loved Henry and the queen said yes but Emma decided to stay. I thought Emma read that she was lying and decided to stay for a little bit just to make sure Henry wasn’t in an abusive home or anything. I admit I might have read too much into it though. I think a way to fanwank it was if Emma was knowing the Queen was lying about something and Emma just stayed in town to make sure she didn’t leave her kid with a psycho. I think it’s a fine line. Since the Regina had her falsely imprisoned after two days it seems dangerous.
-I think since everyone says Henry’s language is the fairytale books, Emma is just trying to get on his side and find things out for now. Given the moves Regina is willing to go through to get Henry isolated, I think Emma thinks it’s a necessarily evil (Ha!) To join Henry’s evil fantasies.

Love the rest of your post!
borg_princess: queen regina-evil yet stylishborg_princess on November 10th, 2011 01:49 am (UTC)
Well, given the Evil Queen’s father’s name is Henry and that the penalty of this reality was the Evil Queen would have a void for the rest of her life the Henry thing makes sense to me. (Part of it). He had a son Henry to replace her father Henry who she loved more than anything but child Henry will never love her back, hence the void she feels

That makes a lot of sense. I typed up this post as I saw the ep, so I didn’t really reflect much on what I saw so much as responded to it, but I’m glad you’ve cut to the heart of the matter there, because as you said, it does seem clear that she adopted a kid to try and fill that void, and she named him for a reason, because she’s trying to find someone who will love her. And it’s really sad to me that he hates her- I hadn’t thought of it before, but wow, I think you’re totally right, he won’t love her because of the curse. Ok, partly because she’s not mother of the year material, but I also think that curse plays a part in it.

I guess people believe there’s a reason he’s acting out and just trust he’s getting the help he needs from his psychiatrist.

I suppose that’s true. It’s just that if a kid took my card and used hundreds of dollars that he STOLE from me without any remorse or repayment, I’d be throwing the book at him and trying to get this kid punished. But I’m not the ‘real world’ version of a fairytale princess, so…

in the pilot Emma said she could always tell when people are lying. Then she was about to leave town and straight up asked the evil queen if she really loved Henry and the queen said yes but Emma decided to stay.

I hadn’t take her ability for serious, but as people have said, it’s a fairytale show, so if we can believe these people are in a cursed town and can’t remember their true selves because of a wicked queen, then why not believe in Emma’s ability?

Just that in the most recent ep, I thought she said something about loving Henry and how precious he was to her or something, and there wasn’t anything in Emma’s face to suggest that wasn’t true.

Since the Regina had her falsely imprisoned after two days it seems dangerous.

YMMV, and mine clearly does as I love Regina, lol, but one night in jail doesn’t seem that harsh, y’know? This is the woman who destroyed an entire world, so that’s pretty tame in comparison, it wasn’t like she was trying to get her locked up forever, she just wanted to discredit her to get Henry to distrust her. (FAIL on that count)

But no, I do agree Emma would be pretty pissed and more inclined to stick around after that, just I don’t see it as a particularly ‘dangerous’ thing to do. But as I said, I’m totally biased! :P

Given the moves Regina is willing to go through to get Henry isolated, I think Emma thinks it’s a necessarily evil (Ha!) To join Henry’s evil fantasies.

I can see that. Normal people don’t abuse their power and get innocent women thrown in jail, so yeah. It’s just…she’s supposed to be the good person, which is why I object to what she does and hold her to a higher moral standard but that’s not really fair, I know.

Love the rest of your post

Thanks! <3 And I appreciate your points in this discussion, too.
sparkythegeek on November 7th, 2011 02:23 pm (UTC)
Great post! :D

Hearing Parrilla's voice as herself, I appreciate even more how she pitches Regina & the Evil Queen's voice a bit lower. I have a deeper voice too, and I like hearing a female lead not talk with a squeaky voice. LOL

The whole thing of Rumplestiltskin telling the Queen that if he says "Please," she has to do it and then Mr. Gold saying that to Regina and her looking so baffled... yeah, it's making me confused, trying to tell is they KNOW or if they DON'T. And if they don't, what are they talking about when they're both saying, "You remember..." It's great writing that we're left with little nuggets to puzzle over each week!

I love how Parrilla (and the other dual characters) pull off their double roles. :D It's so well-weaved together!

I don't feel much about the Sheriff or Mr. Gold/Rumples. I guess I'm the weirdo in the fandom that way. LOL

I do like Henry in the way that he at least does drive the story. He could use a bit more legitimacy than "It's in the book!!!!" but it's funny how Mary Margaret and Emma are willing to go along with it even though that's his only evidence. They have a great suspension of disbelief!
borg_princess: queenregina-attitudeborg_princess on November 10th, 2011 02:26 am (UTC)
Great post! :D

Thanks! And I’m squeeing at seeing people using my icon, I’ve never had such a positive response! Oh, this fandom. <3

Hearing Parrilla's voice as herself, I appreciate even more how she pitches Regina & the Evil Queen's voice a bit lower.

IKR? It was so interesting to me to hear her talking as herself! I love that video with her promoting the show and she starts off talking normal and then her voice slides into the deeper register of the Queen as she threatens the viewer if they don’t watch the show! I’d love to hang out with her and be pestering her all the time, ‘DO THE VOICE’, hee!

I have a deeper voice too, and I like hearing a female lead not talk with a squeaky voice.

Same here! It’s nice having her speak in lower tones instead of the sweet, high-pitched tones a lot of chicks on tv have.

yeah, it's making me confused, trying to tell is they KNOW or if they DON'T. And if they don't, what are they talking about when they're both saying, "You remember..." It's great writing that we're left with little nuggets to puzzle over each week!

a) yes, like, if they DON’T remember, that whole convo is just nonsense! And it’s cheating, really, from the writers if they have them talking in a way that doesn’t make sense if the characters don’t remember
b) YES, I’m loving all the questions and speculation! Some people (not me thus far, but just wait, my moment of brilliance will happen soon *fingers crossed*) have had really neat ideas so far.

I love how Parrilla (and the other dual characters) pull off their double roles. :D It's so well-weaved together!

ITA. They do a fantastic job with the layering of the similar traits in their different roles and making them exciting!

I don't feel much about the Sheriff or Mr. Gold/Rumples. I guess I'm the weirdo in the fandom that way. LOL

Only half a weirdo! :P I’m not that fussed about the Sheriff either. *high five*

I do like Henry in the way that he at least does drive the story

See, that’s my thing, he doesn’t seem like a real person because he’s such a blatant plot device, therefore no consequences for whatever he does and no real motivation or ‘legitimacy’ as you say.

it's funny how Mary Margaret and Emma are willing to go along with it even though that's his only evidence. They have a great suspension of disbelief!

Haha, so true! But I think the psychological elements are so well-done. I get why they’re so easily swayed- Emma because she’s been alone all her life and if she buys into his fantasy, it means she has a reason to stay (otherwise she’d have to leave, but with his mother possibly being an Evil Queen, well, she’s practically obligated to stick around, right?) and get to know her son, and also, if he’s right, that means she can get to know her mother!

With Mary Margaret, it’s pretty clear in the latest ep that she wants to believe in true love and that Charming is her future, she’s so lonely that she would be willing to give Henry’s ideas some credence if only so that she can hope for a happy ending.
issuegirls: roseissuegirls on November 7th, 2011 10:50 pm (UTC)
Okay, I started watching this show tonight because of your squee!posts and I have to say... it's pretty awesome. I love Regina, think Emma's badass, adore Snow White (Mary Margaret less so, because it's like she's Mary Margaret pretending to be Snow White and it just... doesn't work for me. idk how to explain it.) and OMG, Meghan Ory is Red Riding Hood! I have ♥ed Meghan since Higher Ground. *squee*

I totally agree with you about Henry - I find him to be jaw-clenchingly annoying and find the adults' indulgence of what would irl be considered delusions at best to be frustrating beyond belief. As you say, whilst we as viewers know that he's right, they do not. Argh, if only we could stick him in an enchanted cupboard and have him disappear. (too harsh? *snerk*)

If the sheriff is the huntsman... wait... I'm getting my fairytales mixed up, I think. He... was going to kill Snow White as per the Queen's orders, but instead cut out the heart of a deer (or internal organs of some sort) and pretended it was Snow White's... right? Or is he the one who saved Red Riding Hood from the wolf? Or, no, that was a woodcutter... I need a book of fairytales, stat. *g*
borg_princess: queenregina-attitudeborg_princess on November 10th, 2011 02:52 am (UTC)
Okay, I started watching this show tonight because of your squee!posts and I have to say... it's pretty awesome.

\o/ I AM SO PROUD. Yay for you finding a new awesome show! :D :D :D

I love Regina, think Emma's badass, adore Snow White

LOOOOOOOOVE YOUUUUUUU.

Also, if you’ve seen ep 3, WOW, Snow White is such a BAMF.

Mary Margaret less so, because it's like she's Mary Margaret pretending to be Snow White

I don’t really care about Mary Margaret except in her scenes with Emma because it’s just SO adorable and tragic that she’s interacting with her own daughter and doesn’t knoooow.

OMG, Meghan Ory is Red Riding Hood! I have ♥ed Meghan since Higher Ground. *squee*

I’m so glad I was able to influence you to watch a show that has someone you love! *preens*

I totally agree with you about Henry - I find him to be jaw-clenchingly annoying and find the adults' indulgence of what would irl be considered delusions at best to be frustrating beyond belief. As you say, whilst we as viewers know that he's right, they do not. Argh, if only we could stick him in an enchanted cupboard and have him disappear. (too harsh? *snerk*)

YOU ARE MY FAVORITE PERSON AS OF RIGHT NOW. I’m so happy to find someone that despises this kid as much as I do. NO SUCH THING AS TOO HARSH WHERE HE’S CONCERNED. In ep 3, he just makes me want to smash things in lieu of his face, ugh. Seriously. SMH.

If the sheriff is the huntsman... wait... I'm getting my fairytales mixed up, I think. He... was going to kill Snow White as per the Queen's orders, but instead cut out the heart of a deer (or internal organs of some sort) and pretended it was Snow White's... right? Or is he the one who saved Red Riding Hood from the wolf? Or, no, that was a woodcutter... I need a book of fairytales, stat. *g*

IKR? I’m too lazy to research, though, I’mma just wait for the show or fandom to enlighten me, lol. I think, since the Sheriff is Regina’s henchman, he may be the huntsman. He does come off like a good guy atm, so I’m leaning toward that.

I didn’t even remember there was a woodcutter from Red Riding Hood’s story! He’ll prob show up at some point.
lone_pyramid: audreylone_pyramid on November 7th, 2011 11:01 pm (UTC)
I'm guessing there's more to Henry than what we know yet. I mean, Regina's obviously not a kid person so why go through all the trouble of adopting? How did she "just happen" to end up with Emma's son? How did he latch on to the whole "fairy tale is real" thing? There's something else going on.
borg_princess: hermione-ponderborg_princess on November 8th, 2011 02:49 am (UTC)
Well, in a panel with Lana Parrilla and Robert Carlyle, they were talking about how Regina needed to give love to someone safe and that's why she adopted Henry. So for now, at least, the actors are saying it was because she wanted someone to love, and it was amusing to me how Robert was fanwanking about how she was just struggling with it and stumbling at roadblocks and then Lana interrupts all 'SHE'S JUST BAD AT IT', which I lol'd so hard at. So...I believe that while she doesn't appear to be a kid person, she does want to love Henry.

How did he latch on to the whole "fairy tale is real" thing?

Because Mary Margaret gave him that bloody book!

I'd love it if this went all Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles where you think he's just an innocent naive little kid and then it turns out he's a plant or there are ulterior motives and he's really scheming and conspiring with someone all along, lol.
(no subject) - lone_pyramid on November 9th, 2011 12:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 10th, 2011 02:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
ιнεαяттσяσηтσ™: TV: ouat - haters are poorblossombunny on November 8th, 2011 02:20 pm (UTC)
flawless post is flawless :)

oooooooohhhh my darling Rumples/Mr. Gold. i'd give him my bbs....but only if he makes them :P

speaking of which..i made THIS!! :D
https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-wanna-give-Rumples-Mr-Gold-my-babies-but-only-if-he-makes-them/271600546210759

btw...do you have an FB? friend me on there? :)
borg_princess: queenregina-HBICborg_princess on November 10th, 2011 02:57 am (UTC)
Why, thank you, darling. <3

i'd give him my bbs....but only if he makes them :P

MWAHAHA, I love your adoration for this dude. *squish* And making a FB page as well, your fannishness is all-consuming. :D

I don't have a FB, though, sorry! I would friend you if I did...
(no subject) - blossombunny on November 10th, 2011 04:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
borg_princess: emma-kissborg_princess on November 14th, 2011 01:06 am (UTC)
Aww! Thanks so much, hon. :D
*¨❤¨*Lynn*¨❤¨*iheartnickcath on November 15th, 2011 04:41 am (UTC)
I think its possible, they both could remember, but I don't know. One episode I think she does and the next it changes that answer. I love the evil queen/regina though :)
borg_princess: queenregina-attitudeborg_princess on November 15th, 2011 11:33 pm (UTC)
The writers are plaaaaayyiiiing with us. I'm pretty convinced Regina does for sure, otherwise her reactions and conversations make NO SENSE and I will side-eye the writers for it. Mr Gold, however...IDEK! *confuzzled*

And hell yes, I share your love. :D OBVIOUSLY, lol.

Er, since we have this fandom/character in common, would you like to be friends? ^_^
(no subject) - iheartnickcath on November 16th, 2011 12:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 16th, 2011 12:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - iheartnickcath on November 16th, 2011 01:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
Steph: i like the bad-guy team(s) [OUAT]stephantom on November 18th, 2011 05:16 am (UTC)
I am late to this party, but I just wanted to add a couple thoughts.

First off -- I love your commentary and your caps. I feel for Regina for all the reasons you gave.

But I wanted to make a case for Henry... You're right that, if you took away the supernatural elements, the way he's treating his mother would be just awful. But the stolen baby raised by an evil mother is unfortunately a trope that's been around for a long time. Henry sees himself in that position and acts accordingly. But more importantly, I think, if we actually think about what it means that the town has been frozen in time up until Emma showed up, then I think his situation becomes much more sympathetic. With that kind of evidence, of course he's certain about the fairy-tale theory, and of course there's been friction between him and his mother.

I came across a short fic somebody wrote on this subject that I thought offered a great explanation, which you might want to check out (even though you don't like Henry): http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7541026/1/


That aside, I think the question of who remembers/knows how much is really intriguing. I don't think we've been given any confirmation regarding anyone yet, but it seems like Regina doesn't know, but just has this hazy concept of her past in Storybrooke that she doesn't want to examine too closely. I think when Gold asked her where she got the name Henry, she was thrown off because she didn't know but she had a feeling it was important. And then it would just throw her off more that Gold seemed to know that it was important. I interpreted the "please" thing similarly. I think she's wondering why the hell she can never bring herself to say no when he says that.

As for Gold, it seems like he does somehow remember being Rumpelstiltskin... But it's possible he doesn't and has just picked up on all the clues, or is testing things. He could have just noticed at some point that Regina always listens when he says please, for example. Or possibly knowing Emma's name gave him a kind of touchstone that let him know who she is even in fairytale world (because she actually has the same name, unlike everybody else), and once he remembers her, all the cards fall into place?
Steph: Loki hmmmsstephantom on November 18th, 2011 05:28 am (UTC)
Random thought just occurred to me:

Rumpel prophesies to Snow and Charming that their daughter will come and break the curse on her 28th birthday. And it seems like the only reason she came was because Henry went and got her. Henry was an outsider growing up on Storybrooke, someone who could theoretically break the curse just by... interacting with the cursed people and getting them to wake up and make some changes. Except that they can't because time is actually stuck for all of them, so no real change is possible. But, for no particular reason, I guess, other than that she's special (maybe because she actually was born in fairy-world and then went straight to the real world without going through the curse?), it starts up as soon as she sets foot in the town.

But I'm thinking... If Regina wanted to adopt a baby, from outside of town, and she was stuck in time, like everybody else, couldn't that baby have been... Emma? Rather than Henry? (Unrelated, but if significant change isn't possible, how the hell was Regina/Gold able to make a major change like bringing in a baby?? Or is Regina the only one who can move forward in time?? Is that why she's guaranteed power and a "happy ending?" So many questions!)

Anyway. I just wanted to stop for a moment to contemplate the possibility of an AU where Regina raises Emma. I think the only reason they threw in a third generation was so that the heroine could be a full-grown outsider capable of butting heads with Regina. Which IS awesome, I might add. But she totally could have been her baby, and the story could be about her saving the world by redeeming Regina and... fluffy harmony for everyone. Or turning on her like Henry. lol It's probably better the way it is. But. Yeah. I just... felt compelled to share.
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 25th, 2011 05:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
omg last comment, i swear - stephantom on November 18th, 2011 05:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - borg_princess on November 25th, 2011 04:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
Sylwia (sill-vee-uh): red riding hoodunnecessary_ on November 19th, 2011 01:03 am (UTC)
I love everything about this entry.
borg_princessborg_princess on November 22nd, 2011 05:45 am (UTC)
Wow, thanks for that!